Curse

Esprit · May 31, 2008, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Really!? Are you seriously complaining about a PvE skill?

Is anyone forcing to use it? No.

It does not affect your gameplay at all and you are saying it's too powerful, that's ridiculous.

Don't like it? Don't use it. It's that simple.

Tyla · May 31, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

It does not affect your gameplay at all and you are saying it's too powerful, that's ridiculous.

That's funny, because it's not exactly underpowered, or balanced now is it? Ofcourse not, that would be rediculous.

Quote:

Don't like it? Don't use it. It's that simple.

Yes, and looking at a number of things.

This skill exists like this on the PvE side, and it affects you simply because it is there.

And depending on what action the majority take, it will affect you if you're willing to PuG and use normal, non-instawin buttons aswell.

And yeah, by that logic, we should keep exploits too! You don't have to use it do you?

Vinraith · May 31, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Next it'll be "all character base attack damage increased to 1000 per hit, now you can C-space your way to victory and never have to run any skills at all!" and we'll still have a brigade of people screaming "don't like it, don't use it, this change is great for the game!"

I suspect this may be the end of Guild Wars and I. Hell, it may be the end of online games and I, considering how inevitable this kind of power creep is.

Abedeus · May 31, 2008, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Really!? Are you seriously complaining about a PvE skill?

Is anyone forcing to use it? No.

It does not affect your gameplay at all and you are saying it's too powerful, that's ridiculous.

Don't like it? Don't use it. It's that simple.

Oh, please. Are you really living in the Matrix or what?

I want a 5000000 hp character. Don't like it? Don't use it, it won't change your gameplay, right? So give it, now. Why not give 5 mln hp and 200k dmg to all people, so wanding will kill HM Duncan or Mallyx in 1 hit.

zwei2stein · May 31, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Don't like it? Don't use it. It's that simple.

I think its you who is simple.

Thizzle · May 31, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Reading the opening post says hi.

Reading your post says hi.

Esprit · May 31, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I want a 5000000 hp character. Don't like it? Don't use it, it won't change your gameplay, right? So give it, now. Why not give 5 mln hp and 200k dmg to all people, so wanding will kill HM Duncan or Mallyx in 1 hit.

I did not say anything like that. You are talking about inherent character aspects, health and damage, something Anet would force on anyone. We are talking about one skill on one profession that you CHOOSE to use.

Tell me how this skill affects overall gameplay in PvE. Does it somehow ruin your fun?

If you are PuGing then you are playing a lottery of getting random people who do or do not know how to play. If you get an Ether Renewal Elementalist, then join another PuG or play with Guildmates or Alliancemates. If you don't want anyone using Ether Renewal, be a leader and request other teammates not to use it.

And zwei2stein, your comment really added nothing to this thread.

Esan · May 31, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

And zwei2stein, your comment really added nothing to this thread.

Hey, if you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that.

edwinna elbert · May 31, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Ok, so ether renewal is a super-elite now.

Can everyone please post a build that shows how massively overpowered it is? To me it seems like an excellent support skill, but it's not going to turn an ele into a DPS machine like Ursan. Here are some OP builds:

[Glyph of swiftness][Ether renewal][Aura of restoration][Protective spirit][spirit bond][shield guardian][reversal of fortune]
[Glyph of swiftness][Ether renewal][aura of restoration][vigorous spirit][healing breeze][heal other][heal party][infuse health]
[Glyph of swiftness][Ether renewal][aura of restoration][air attunement][blinding flash][lightning orb][lightning hammer]
[Glyph of swiftness][Ether renewal][aura of restoration][order of pain][vampiric gaze][dark fury][awaken the blood]
[Glyph of swiftness][Ether renewal][aura of restoration][illusion of weakness][conjure nightmare][conjure phantasm]

Is there something I'm missing?

edit: added the swiftness for 100% uptime

Tyla · May 31, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Well, now we have "The Four Imbas".

Imbagon: For extremely strong passive defense! Buttonmashable too!

Ursan: For extremely strong spike power, knocklocks and extra defense layers! Buttonmashable!

Ether Renewal: For extreme flexibility! Can run any caster! Buttonmashable!

Soul Reaping: For extreme flexibility! Can run any caster! Buttonmashable!

Aaaaaaaaaaand in the left corner, Shadow Form! Superfarm except in very few areas!

Longasc · May 31, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwinna elbert

Ok, so ether renewal is a super-elite now.

Can everyone please post a build that shows how massively overpowered it is? To me it seems like an excellent support skill, but it's not going to turn an ele into a DPS machine like Ursan. Here are some OP builds:

[Ether renewal][Aura of restoration][Protective spirit][spirit bond][shield guardian][reversal of fortune]
[Ether renewal][aura of restoration][vigorous spirit][healing breeze][heal other][heal party][infuse health]
[Ether renewal][aura of restoration][air attunement][blinding flash][lightning orb][lightning hammer]
[Ether renewal][aura of restoration][order of pain][vampiric gaze][dark fury][awaken the blood]
[Ether renewal][aura of restoration][illusion of weakness][conjure nightmare][conjure phantasm]

Is there something I'm missing?

No. I would use this Glyph of Swiftness in your builds to keep it up some more, but in general that's it.
Ether Renewal rocks much more for healing/support builds than for damage.

In the big picture there are still better ways to make this game easy as hell and smoke the mobs.

I think people are more moaning about the general downtrend than this one skill in particular.

aB- · May 31, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

I did not say anything like that. You are talking about inherent character aspects, health and damage, something Anet would force on anyone. We are talking about one skill on one profession that you CHOOSE to use.

A skill that does 10,000 damage to all enemies in the area with no cooldown or manacost is fine then? That's one skill on one profession that you can CHOOSE to use.

I'm not really against the change, just against this argument that PvE is balanced always because you don't have to use a skill.

Esprit · May 31, 2008, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

A skill that does 10,000 damage to all enemies in the area with no cooldown or manacost is fine then? That's one skill on one profession that you can CHOOSE to use.

I'm not really against the change, just against this argument that PvE is balanced always because you don't have to use a skill.

That's an unrealistic and extreme example. And I didn't say that PvE is balanced because of the choice to use a skill. And if you want to cop out and use such a skill, that's your own perogative. I wouldn't play with someone who uses it and the game economy is already shot as it is.

Sleeper Service · May 31, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

....lmao at all the QQing. have ANY of you actually tried using ER in a actual combat situation rather that in the HOM or on Isle.

no really. try it and see if its really worth crying about, yes the (theoretical) numbers are impressive but the actual real use is different.

sheesh.

upier · May 31, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You have a very odd definition of balance then. When PvE was balanced around PvP rules, PvE was MORE balanced than it is now. Take PvE away from PvP rules, and PvE is already more inbalanced than it was just a few weeks ago.

That's the thing - PvE never was balanced around PvP rules.
PvP rules dictate:
1. participants can have max 16 in a selected attribute
2. rules about health and energy regeneration
3. rules about attack/skill activation/movement speed
4. players can be lvl 20 max
5. rules regarding knocked downs
6. rules regarding skill behaviour - more specifically stuff like condition/hex duration, Blackout
7. players leave exploitable corpses
8. ....

PvP skills were NOT balanced in PvE. They couldn't be because they were balanced for PvP on a set of rules that don't exist in PvE.

The issue is that the imbalance that we see NOW is in favour of the player (= the players have overpowered skills at their disposal instead of underpowered ones). The fact that underpowered skills were a way to deal with shitty PvE design is irrelevant to this discussion though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I find that funny. Want to know why?

It's got "Hard Mode" and not "Better Drops Mode" on it.

"Hard Mode" implies the difficulty will be harder, and they just go and butcher it by introducing stupidly imbalanced things.

But ... the difficulty in HM IS higher.
People like you would do HM because they'd want to challenge themselves.
People who play to win - will do HM because of the better drops and the titles. Because otherwise there is NO point in doing it. Because when playing to win - you are choosing the options that make your road to victory easier.
And playing though an area in HM isn't easier.

DreamWind · May 31, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

PvP skills were NOT balanced in PvE. They couldn't be because they were balanced for PvP on a set of rules that don't exist in PvE.

The issue is that the imbalance that we see NOW is in favour of the player (= the players have overpowered skills at their disposal instead of underpowered ones). The fact that underpowered skills were a way to deal with shitty PvE design is irrelevant to this discussion though.

The imbalance we see now is a DIRECT result of PvE splitting off from PvP. Remember, most of the inbalance before this split was due to PvE only skills. Whether or not PvP skills were balanced with PvE in mind is irrelevent, because PvP balance helped keep PvE more in balance than it is without PvP balance.

byteme! · May 31, 2008, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I PLAY HARD MODE BECAUSE OF THE BETTER DROPS. I PLAY HARD MODE BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO MAX CERTAIN TITLES. I COULD CARE LESS IF HARD MODE IS MEANT TO BE HARDER. THAT'S THE ORIGINAL REASON WHY I PLAY IT! I DON'T WANT TO "GIMP" MY DROPS. IF I WANTED A CHALLENGE I WOULD GO PVP. PVE WAS NEVER A CHALLENGE. EVERYTIME A CAMPAIGN IS RELEASED, PEOPLE ARE CAPABLE OF RUSHING THROUGH IT AND COMPLETING IT IN A MATTER OF DAYS (they don't have to but it's totally doable). HOW IS THAT A CHALLENGE?

/caplockoff

Strawman arguments make me laugh.

Hard Mode reaps better rewards. Everything I do in this game is about the reward at the end regardless if it's PvP or PvE. After 36 months this so-called "challenge" is nothing more then a nuisance now. Slowing the process of me getting to my reward. Sounds like I'm greedy but it's just 1 of the many reasons people still play this game.

Luminarus · May 31, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

PVP ask for a split so PVE stop crying about nerfs
PVE ask for a split coz they are crying about nerfs
Everyone hates the bear coz it makes things easy, which contradicts PVE ers wanting nerfs.

ANet splits the skills, and the QQ's roll in.

For god sake people, everyone complains about skill balance but you cant please everyone.

In pve, the majority of people arent in the top guilds who team through everything with balanced teams. Ursan allows people without time to do the hard areas, and that makes them happy.

And before people say it, I never ursan except once or twice in a norn rep run to max the title.

Now, hero hench teams are allowed SOME good skills, because now the heroes can use them. Whilst ER may be imba, there is no reason to nerf it because you still dont need to use it.

Final point,

STOP CRYING OVER EVERY SKILL CHANGE.

I feel sorry for izzy who is always dealing with crying, and the odd "nice update izzy'

Moral55 · May 31, 2008, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

No, it's not overpowered.

Why don't all you elitists think of us casuals once. We only log in once a month for 15 minutes. We can't spend 8 hours every day playing with pvp FOTM builds. This skill is what we want. It's what's really making us love GW. It has improved the game so much.

We are all sick of HA elitist snobs dictating how pve should be. SF is finally properly balanced. So is ether renewal. And stop talking about soul reaping. It needs to go back and minion cap needs to be removed.

This has improved the game so much. It's finally making me enjoy my 15 minutes a month without some pvp jerks pushing their snobbery on me. Finally something for us that cannot spend years of our life perfecting some cookie cutter builds.

I can now finally PUG without discrimination, and I finally managed to beat THK thanks to this. PvE has finally been balanced around common player. This has improved my questing and mission experience so much. Now all we need is Hard Mode to be toned down. That place is insane. Think of the casuals. Why can't it be made like normal mode? Why does everything need to be centered around elitists.

Cheers. Finally a smart move by Anet. Hope to see many more like this. This has improved my enjoyment of the game so much. Thank you again. Hope to see many more.

PS. Who knows, maybe someone will even take the above seriously, and this thread will go down in flames....

I know you don't think what you said was right.... but you are none the less. This is really the best update ever, people only used the broken stuff anyways for more broken stuff give me more options as to what to play.

RotteN · May 31, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

....lmao at all the QQing. have ANY of you actually tried using ER in a actual combat situation rather that in the HOM or on Isle.

no really. try it and see if its really worth crying about, yes the (theoretical) numbers are impressive but the actual real use is different.

sheesh.

Ether renewal, in his pre-nerf form, was used in tombs as a smiter (combining amongst others [[draw condition], [[zealot's fire] and pre-nerf [[balthazar's aura] for serious damage, self heal and energy manegement).

It worked in PvP, of course it will work in PvE (unless you're an idiot that cannot grasp the concept).